Public opinion is divided with a mix of support for the police crackdown as a necessary security measure and skepticism about governmental transparency and motivations. Concerns about civil liberties, historical grievances, and systemic misconduct in law enforcement contribute to a broader discourse. Comments highlight geopolitical tensions and conspiracy theories, reflecting a complex exchange of views on the region's past and ongoing challenges.

Jammu and Kashmir Police

Indian Government

Civil Liberties Advocates

Local Population

The OG article was paywalled and is linked here:
https://caravanmagazine.in/conflict/indian-army-organises-aakhir-kab-tak-nationalist-protests-kashmir


u/fuelkingx had access to complete article and made it available in a comment that was sadly deep down in the comments section. So I'm reposting it for greater visibility.

[deleted]

icelebratefestivus

riste_

The mere fact that this was seriously considered at the time is beyond terrible. 

[Wikipedia Article: Operation Northwoods](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)

Also, an interesting fact is that "it was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy."

What if this wasn't the only time something like this was proposed? And what if someone then in a position of power chose not to reject such a notion? Think about it.

Brum27

joe7dust

I tried to explain this operation to a friend who immediately interrupted me and says "CONSPIRACY THEORY!". Conspiracy yes, theory no, it's a documented plan, history.

hyperorbit

Immynimmy

snails ancient continue pie sip deer tub dinner compare cautious

 *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

numlok

Luckily the people who got to make the decision were sane enough to abandon the plan.

MK Ultra, on the other hand, which was the CIA's attempt at using LSD as mind control, was carried out and had casualties.  

I am always suprised at societies ability to instantly shoot down conspiracy theories as paranoia when the US government has made use of such operations to topple governments  across the globe. Hitler himself burned the German Parliament so he could blame the communists and opposition. This cloak and dagger shit exists, its not everywhere but it exists.

After I made [a post along these lines yesterday](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/mc0wg/what_is_one_conspiracy_that_you_firmly_believe_in/c2zqna6), I decided to look up more of our military history for similar inconsistencies.

I pulled up [Wikipedia's list of American military operations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Wars), found all the bolded items after 1812, and read up on what started each war.

[The Mexican-American War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War#Origins_of_the_war): President Polk orders General Taylor to essentially wander about in a contested area with Mexico until something happens.

[The Spanish-American War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish-American_War#USS_Maine): The US sends a battleship to help protect American citizens, but fails to warn the Spanish government that we're sending a battleship at them. The boat then explodes, mysteriously, and war's on.

[The Philippine-American War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War#Conflict_origins): President McKinley writes up a proclamation for the assimilation of the Philippines, then edits it so that it sounds less offensive. The unedited copy, however, is accidentally delivered to the Philippines, who respond by saying that they will fight if the U.S. tries to take their lands. The U.S. General stationed there takes this as a declaration of war and starts fortifying. Shots are accidentally fired, and the U.S. swings into battle.

[World War I](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Last_voyage_and_sinking): Germany threatens to sink our passenger boats. We send them anyway. Germany sinks them. We get angry.

[World War II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory): The Japanese launch a major assault on Pearl Harbor, destroying a large number of our battleships. Conspiracy theorists argue that the United States had at least some foreknowledge of the attack, that our battleships happened to be grouped up perfectly for easy bombing and difficult deployment, and that our response to the attack was exceptionally sluggish.

[Korean War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War): Nothing particularly suspicious here. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Vietnam War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident): We decide to send spy boats on missions around Vietnam. Predictably, we're attacked. We claim that we're attacked twice, then jump into war.

[The Six-Day War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident): Israel *accidentally* attacks a U.S. intelligence boat. After some investigation, the U.S. drops charges, despite some thinking the attack was obviously deliberate.

The War in Afghanistan and the War for Iraqi Freedom?

reflion

I wonder how many operations like this there really are or have been.

whatever_idc

I read his book, **"Body of Secrets"**  (which was interesting) and Bamford asserted that Eisenhower initiated the commission for Northwoods after Russia shot down a spy plane over their territory and recovered the pilot, both of whom failed to self detonate as planned. Eisenhower lied publicly about spying and instructed his staff to refuse to testify (or lie) at Congressional Inquiries and it was a big scandal when leaked. Losing popularity he shelved his full scale invasion of Cuba he was planning and settled on the planning for this. He lost to Kennedy who cancelled it as soon as he found out, which lead to the CIA initiating the Bay of Pigs informing Kennedy too late after it started. He allegedly was so upset he removed all Army tactical and logistic support which was the reason the invasion was so ill fated.

A lot of what was presented is the first time I heard that particular viewpoint, so I cannot vouch for it's accuracy (**"Body of Secrets"** definitely felt like it had an agenda) but it seems to be well known and established as substantiated.

PowerEffect

This is how we roll. It's how we've always rolled. Do your history.

cavortingwebeasties

If you think the the fact that they even considered doing this is bad, you must not know about what the CIA did in Laos.  They Trained the Hmong people to fight, a 30,000 strong guerrilla army that fought the Peoples army of Vietnam, NLF and some others to aid US efforts in Vietnam. They bombed the shit out of the place, displaced something like 700,000 people. Google the secret war or CIA involvement in Laos. 
To be honest, this shouldn't be a surprise, it's been said many times that the CIA trained the very terrorists that were shooting at our troops and planting IEDs. 

jurassiksteeze

Also, the US government poisoned over 10,000 people during prohibition in order to scare people from using industrial alcohol. [Source](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html)

Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.

TheFrownyClown

This was signed by the fucking Joint Chiefs of Staff! Makes you think what kind of leaders we have...if this was happening in the 60's and they weren't prosecuted in any way whatsoever, you KNOW it's happening today. 

eeeeeeediot

Did anybody actually read the proposed "terrorism"? It is nothing like 9/11, all the plans are inteneded to *appear* like terroristic threats while instead being harmless. For example: 

"An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone."

This might be shocking but it is not the US government killing citizens to provoke a war as 9/11 conspirators are claiming.

UndeadCaesar

I'm reading through these suggestions, and other than one in particular that suggest to go so far "...even to the extent of wounding..." a cuban immigrant, it seems to me that these would all just be loud and flashy cases where the US government destroys their own property.

I'm not justifying what they suggest here, but the title of this thread uses a lot of loaded language and obvious bias.

KWiP1123

They also funded secret armies in italy and germany without knowledge of these countries, gave them military-grade explosives and weapons. Goal was to slow down a russian invasion by sabotaging infrastructure. One of the cells later made a terror attack on the oktoberfest. Thirteen deaths, over 200 wounded. Minister of the interior blamed it on left radicals, altough it was a right-wing group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

&gt; We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated)

FUCK YOU UNCLE SAM. FUCK YOU IN THE ASS!


gargantuan

Just go to work and buy stuff.  Don't be a crazy.

So we have kennedy to thank for Operation Northwoods not being put into effect... and look what happened to him.  
  
Now look at all the acts of 'terrorism' that have happened in the US and around the world, and note the lack of assassinations. My guess is that TPTB learned a little from Kennedy; they learned how to stack the decks in favor of a less decent and more obliging POTUS. 

b4dr0b0t

Thank God for Wikile,...

&gt;The previously secret document was originally made public on 18 November 1997, by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board,[3] a U.S. federal agency,...

...Oh.


ringopendragon

*obligatory response about Gulf of Tonkin, Reichstag FIre and 9/11 comparison*

seriously though you can learn about this stuff every day in /r/conspiracy

Brocktoon_in_a_jar

sanriver12

And rejected because it was impractical at a time when it would have been very difficult to keep secret.  Imagine how much more diffficult it would be now with cameras in every cell phone.  

thesnakeinthegarden

"New Pearl Harbor"
Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[14]
Though not arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as commentator Manuel Valenzuela and journalist Mark Danner,[41][42][43] investigative journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[44] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[45] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the "Pearl Harbor" that they needed––that is, as an "opportunity" to "capitalize on" (in Pilger's words), in order to enact long-desired plans.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

malarie

you can tell your government's fucked when you read shit like this and it doesn't even surprise you.

It's shit like this

..that makes me love Reddit. 

tamper

Joe Rogan talks about this all the time on his podcast and also mentions it in his rant about "The American War Machine" . It is some pretty intense stuff.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRB4dVk4kK0  

zeronightstand

Clearly this is a sinister Castro plot to discredit the CIA.

tbe170

This is the first TIL where I was like, "Really?  Just now?"  

Oh no, am I a hipster!?

rabbit221

Call me paranoid, but after reading this, I think the "9/11 was an inside job from the CIA to get support to invade Iraq!"-people seem a whole lot less crazy...

&gt;"We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida **(real or simulated)**"
holy crap...

FXLeach

From reading and viewing various documentaries on this matter, its my opinion that there is little evidence that the President of the USA has any control over anything. 

He seems to be a puppet used by the ones behind the scenes to give the impression that everything is fine and dandy. He is used to rouse patriotism when needed to get the nation's people behind immoral actions that is not in the best interests of the people. 

It remains clear to me that if the President is a good man inherently and is given free rein and absolute control without the limitations that lobbyists, corporations, hidden agendas and many other groups place on him, then USA and the world would see vast, vast improvement and a future that is a little more hopeful for everybody and not just those who indulge in the most cheating. 

helicalhell

What hasn't been mentioned yet is that once mainstream people in the government found out about it, including the President, NUMEROUS people were fired over it. 

I always think of this when I recall the hijackers passport that survived 9/11 in mint condition. 

Suddenly the 9/11 conspiracy theory seems *slightly* less batshit insane. And that's terrifying. 

BeefPieSoup

Very nice seeing this post rise to the top and front page of reddit. Days like these are the days I enjoy reddit.

i have been telling people about this for years. the ironic part is they wanted to use a drone aircraft that would be blown up remotely and blamed on cuba.... DRONE AIRCRAFT, DISGUISED AS A COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT.... and they were going to have MOCK victims, MOCK funerals, MOCK family members go on tv and talk about their family members they lost. 

ABC was the first big media to report on it, ironically may 2001, just a few months before they finally carried it out but without cuba. 

I'm in awe that some people are actually surprised by this. I thought we were past the age where the majority still trusted our government...

774mby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8W-t57xnZg&amp;feature=related
MIT proves 9/11 explanation given by the government is wrong.

aminnnn

Hmm... sounds familiar.... Building 7 comes to mind.

Ever heard of  the sinking of R.M.S. Lusitania? This is when America did the same exact thing and actually made us go into war?

http://lancefuhrer.com/lusitania.htm

lastresort09

similar to the gulf of tonkin incident. we wanted to start a war so we used the time tested, we were innocently going about our business and were attacked  method. now the usa isnt always at fault and often defends the rights of men, but there are historical incidents, gulf of tonkin bay of pigs operation northwoods, where the govt will try to induce war. 

adzug

avert_your_maize

Avoid ANY so-called "news" that is presented to you from the Mainstream U.S. media. Surely by now you know without a doubt it is controlled,manicured bullshit! Examine other sources.

It's like this happened in real life some 10 years ago..

snoopycool

And people are so unwilling to believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy.

WeMetAtTheBloodBank

Tomorrow you can learn how 9/11 was an inside job.

nickspinner

So what makes this unclassified document any more feasible then the thousands of other plans that the government dreams up on a daily basis?

[Bat Bombs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb)

[The men who stare at goats.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats)

[Project Blue Book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book)

[Star Wars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative)



It is the governments job to think up crazy shit and discuss the feasibility. There is a big difference between discussion and actually doing it.

Why would you unclassify your super secret plan anyway?



_Dimension

Hmmmm.... and what if "they" needed an excuse to start this "war on terror" :( oh yea.

iriemeditation

Welcome to the core of all conspiracy theories.

OK_just_the_tip

Nice to see such a post rising to the front page of reddit.  

Recent false flag terrorism examples include:  Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, and the 7/7 London bombing.

It's a rabbit hole that is DEEP, and contrary to what you're mainstream media programmed mind will tell you is loaded with hard evidence to prove it all.  


cpkdoc

Wasn't it mostly mock terrorist attacks?  In the Wikipedia article, 99% of it adamantly states mock attacks, damage to structures, or destroying unmanned drones.  [Source](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods#Content)

And this was the strategy they used in 2001.

slimbruddah

This is perfectly fine TIL post Admins.  This is a Historical fact and RULE III says "Historical politics are fine."

Look up the Gulf of Tonkin incident, basically the same thing. The US staged / fabricated an attack against a US ship, which opened the doors for us to enter the Vietnam war..

Hell, we know that our government had advanced warning that the Japanese were on their way to bomb Pearl harbor, but instead of putting out a warning and saving all those lives, they kept it quiet so that the tragedy would cause Americans to instantly support us joining WW2.


MyOgreOG

Yes I heard about this about 10 years ago...JFK told the pentagon to get that crap off my desk...Nixon/Reagan/Bush 1 &amp; 2 said hey let me see those Opp Northwood docs please....

ohreddit1

Everyone should understand that the CIA is the largest and most ruthless terrorist organization out there.

Holy shit do the majority of people on reddit actually believe 9/11 was a conspiracy?  People have been stating it outright and getting plenty of upvotes.

perpetual_motion

Oh wow good thing it was JFK in charge at this point and not someone like bush... Oh wait... 9/11... Fuck.

I_AM_NOT_A_TAMPON

Xmonster_energyX

poochiekins

No one care about others war in terrorism until you get attack by theses terrorists. Biggest example was America 9/11.

BROWN-MUNDA_

India has been fighting a long battle against terrorism, much of it fueled by Pakistan’s support for extremist groups. Attacks like the 2001 Parliament assault, the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, and the Pulwama bombing in 2019 were all linked to terrorists based in Pakistan. Despite this, Pakistan continues to deny involvement while giving safe haven to groups like Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba. 


India has taken firm steps to respond, including surgical strikes and airstrikes, making it clear that such attacks won’t go unanswered. The fight is about protecting Indian lives and sending a strong message that terrorism will not be tolerated.

ss998ss

Another low quality blog post disguised as a journalistic article. This is Konstantin Bogdanos' personal newsletter. Look him up.

Troelski

It's terrorism only if it happens in the west or western allied nations. Everywhere else it is militancy or freedom fighters. Don't you know?

Axerin

The only two choices are “stand up” or “kneel to fear” huh?

The article writer realises there’s a major conflict ongoing on the European border right? 

Not sure it’s the EU’s biggest priority to to fight a war that has been simmering for 20 odd years in a land 6,000km away.

Aranthos-Faroth

If this war continues escalating, a lot of Indians who have been condemning Israel are going to suddenly find themselves on the same side of the fence as them as the world begins attacking them for fighting the peaceful genocidal Islamists next door who have been hostile towards them for decades. I was surprised at the reaction from r India the other day when Israel said they stand behind India.

Tw1tcHy

What does that support from the west need to look like? Post 9/11 India voiced support for the US, which earned it better relations, but if I am right India did not participate in combat operations (maybe intelligence sharing). So is it enough if we do the same here? Words of support and maybe some intel? There are a lot of conflicts in the world and we (America) can’t fund or fight all wars. Also, India has stayed kind of in between the west and Russia, buying the S-400 system and other Russian arms. How far do we need to back India here? And really, with its economy (bolstered by western investment) India should be able to handle (establish deterrence over) Pakistan on its own.

esquirlo_espianacho

The west doesn't want to totally defeat Islamist fundamentalists, the western nations like the us and uk used the mhujidean (along with Pakistan isi, the world muslim league, and Saudi Arabia) in Afghanistan against the soviets, the west like the uk partitioned Abd divded up India to create Pakistan solely based on a Islamic indenity,  and sharia law, the UK allied with the muslim tatars and ottomans in the crimea war against the Russian Empire, western powers like the us, UK and France has constantly turned a blind eye to Qatar and elements in that nation sponsoring in various forms of poltical Islam and Islamist causes and groups such as Boko Haram, JNIM, tureq separatists,  HTs/Jahbut Al Nusura, the Muslim brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah , Iran mullahs among others, it was France and Jimmy Carter in the us that decided to throw Shah under the bus in favor of the Ayatollah, it was Germany, the Us, and other western powers ( along with Iran quds forces, the Turks Pakistan Isi, Hezbollah, Al qaeda among others) that supported the Bosnian mhujideen and Albanian KLA (tied to Al qaeda) against the Serbian Orthodox and even at times the Catholic Croats in that civil war, likewise it was the west that got behind the Arab Spring and threw I. Support to the Muslim Brotherhood at the expense of traditional allies in the region, etc.

I give it two weeks before they start condemning India and saying it a hindu  supremacist thing , and that Pakistan is just "complicated'".

Psychological-Flow55

SS: Kashmir burns, and war looms. After the April 22 terrorist massacre in Pahalgam, India strikes back, hammering nine Pakistani sites with “Operation Sindoor.” Pakistan’s airspace is shut, its leaders cry “act of war”, and nuclear sabres rattle. Will the West back India’s fight against Islamic terror, or choke on its own cowardice, scared of its Pakistani diaspora and trade deals, as China watches?

On April 22, 2025, 26 tourists -mostly Hindus- were slaughtered in Pahalgam, Indian-administered Kashmir. The Resistance Front, a Lashkar-e-Taiba proxy, initially claimed the attack, targeting non-Muslims. India blames Pakistan’s secret service, ISI, long accused of fuelling jihadist proxies. Since then, the Line of Control, the military line between the Indian and Pakistani controlled parts of Kashmir, has erupted with skirmishes, drone shootdowns, and missile strikes. On May 6, India’s “Operation Sindoor” hit terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan, killing militants but also civilians, per Pakistani claims. Pakistan vows a “robust response,” and war teeters on the edge.

Mundane-Laugh8562

The article feels like propaganda. The last time I checked India and Pakistan were fighting over an incident that was not investigated by any international body, and both sides offer different interpretations. 


Afaik there is no evidence that the inviting incident had been performed by a Pakistan-sponsored party. 


So, between kneeling and standing up there probably also one more option: investigate stories of both sides.

oritfx

So I guess Balochistan Liberation Army is just freedom fighters then? No wonder India supports their righteous cause.

Potential-Formal8699

The only type of war that Western countries will support is a pitched battle in a field with few or no civilians that can be killed, against a threat that clearly threatens the West as well, e.g., Ukraine v Russia. If the Pakistani enemy hides among civilians and therefore striking them will result in civilian deaths, then the West will mostly oppose India. However, India's economic importance is high enough that like China, they will have a considerably long leash before the West starts issuing deep concerns and condemnations. There are also large voting blocks of Indians in the West who will be offended by too much Western condemnation, so that will also create some restraint.

Pakistan's actions will probably be mostly ignored out of fear of stoking Islamophobia.

EveryConnection

what exactly does India want the west to do. 
India has been very clear it does not want security agreements or alliance with western countries

Ok-Bell4637

We dont want or need West’s pitiful charity.

We want the West to stop gifting 7B $ worth of weapons to Taliban. F16 to Pakistan. 

You cannot be bothered to help us, thats alright.

Do not support the Terrorists and their Masters.

OkCustomer5021

Why would the west care about Kashmir? EU still busy with Ukraine, US is playing whack a mole again with houthis and might be fighting Iran soon

runsongas

Rednas999

The us has already declared that it’s not their problem, though I’m sure they’re happy to sell weapons to the highest bidder. Europe can’t even support Ukraine which is right next door, let alone project power towards the subcontinent. Turkey and China are gleefully supporting Pakistan as a proxy against India.

KosstAmojan

India repeatedly violated the sanctions imposed on Russia buying oil and being the middle man for their exports. I would say that little should be expected from the West by India

leaningtoweravenger

Yeah course , but how about government sanctioned assassination orchestrated by India ?

bronzedisease

World wants to make easy money out of lucrative weapon sales to India and Pakistan. That's why they are not removing immature Pakistan's nuclear weapons Or putting it's terror activities in control.

AshutoshRaiK

The IMF even gave them 2billion fund to buy more terrorists. It's not terrorism until it's EU or US blood(white)

Fun_Confidence_462

We will do the same thing India did in reaction to war in Ukraine - we will say “not our problem” and continue trading with aggressor.

Ivanow

The west has its own issues to deal with. I honestly hope to god that innocent civilians are kept safe for the onslaught that's about to follow. This might very well be the end of Pakistan. Why on Earth would you pick on someone significantly bigger, stronger, smarter and quicker than you?

Godspeed!

Sweetchildofmine88

Well this inflammatory article aged like milk. I’m glad the ceasefire was signed - most sensible solution. 

No_Abbreviations3943

Jammu and Kashmir Police have detained individuals under the Public Safety Act as part of efforts to dismantle terror networks and maintain regional security.

Jammu and Kashmir Police Crackdown on Terror Associates Under Public Safety Act

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